Monday, October 19, 2009

The Atheist Challenge!

1. Put frog in blender
2. Blend frog
3. Put blender on kitchen table
4. Wait for frog to hop back out

Should be a no brainer for evolution - given that we know everything required to make a living frog is present.

My dear atheist friend, don't hold your breath!

31 comments:

NayLahKnee LahKnee said...

that. is. funny.

PersonalFailure said...

if anyone claimed that evolution happened on the instant, sure that's be a great example. over here in reality, however . . .

ExPatMatt said...

that. is. stupid.

None of it makes any sense whatsoever - is it supposed to?

All it shows is that you either know nothing about atheism and/or evolution but don't care, or you do know some things about atheism and/or evolution but are willing to be dishonest about them to further your ideology.

Question: why should an atheist trust what a theist has to say about things we can't verify when theists can't be trusted regarding things we can verify?

Sad.

Paul Brown said...

Did you try waiting three days for it to rise again?

James said...

Silly atheists. They always forget to pray for the frog between steps 3 and 4. :D

Sam said...

@PersonalFailure - Everyone knows that it takes billions of years for complex life to evolve! Good thing you weren't holding your breath!

Tell you what, leave the frog on your kitchen table for a few years and then get back to me!

I think you'll find the frog begins to decay into a stinking mess... a bit like the theory of evolution really!

Sam said...

that. is. stupid.
Evolution?

None of it makes any sense whatsoever - is it supposed to?
What? You can't get a new frog from old frog parts? This is outrageous! I want answers!

All it shows is that you either know nothing about atheism and/or evolution but don't care, or you do know some things about atheism and/or evolution but are willing to be dishonest about them to further your ideology.
Atheism: the doctrine or belief that there is no God
Evolution: the unfounded belief in a sequence of events supposidly involved in the evolutionary development of a species or taxonomic group of organisms. The last bastien of misplaced hope for an Atheist!

Question: why should an atheist trust what a theist has to say about things we can't verify when theists can't be trusted regarding things we can verify?
What have you personally verified, through your own scientific studies, that leads you to conclude evolution is fact, not theory?

Sad.
I totally agree!

Sam said...

@Paul said...
Did you try waiting three days for it to rise again?
Only after adding yeast!

Paul, the scriptures do not deal in such trifling things! If it were important to understand how frogs could reassemble after being blended then the scriptures would lay it out for us. But this would be a pointless waste of time (kind of like watching a blended frog on your kitchen table). Rather the Word of God deals with great realities (that we are wicked, corrupt, sinners) and marvellous remedies (that we can be made right with a just and holy God who will punish sin and sinners wherever they are found!).

I recommend you spend a little less time trying to ponder the evolution of mankind and spend a little more time understanding how you can be made right with your Creator!

Sam said...

James. As an atheist, who would you pray to anyway?

The (ghost of ) Doktor said...

I hope they've sterilized you before you had a chance to reproduce. This kind of stupid is truly a smear on the reputation of Australia. You should move to the states and hang out with the Hovinds.

Question... How many years did it take for you to come up with that priceless bit of dookie?

I hope your parents had a few children that lived.

Matthew said...

Atheism /= evolution. You are aware there are many Christians who accept the theory of evolution? Or are they not True Christians (tm)?

ExPatMatt said...

Sam,

I chat with a lot of theists on blogs. Mostly they're honest, thoughtful, decent people who I just disagree with on some key issues.

This disagreement allows us to engage in some interesting discussions about important questions.

However, this only works if both sides are willing to discuss things honestly.

You have shown yourself incapable of holding an honest discussion.

As such you can expect to see nothing but failure in your evangelism efforts.

Let us know if you grow up enough to hold an adult conversation, won't you?

Cheers,



PS. I have observed evolution, personally, a number of times and the phrasing of your question; 'fact not theory' shows how little you know (or how much you're willing to be deceptive) about the scientific process.

James said...

James. As an atheist, who would you pray to anyway?

Who do you suggest? I've tried a whole bunch of different entities, but so far the poor frog has failed to "hop back out".

Entities tried thus far: Yahweh, Allah, Thor and his dad Odin, Ra, Horus, Hercules, Jesus, SCP-343, Morgan Freeman, Darwin, Evolution, the God of Evolution, Terry Pratchett, Casper, the Holy Ghost, the Buddha, the Tao, Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Hades, President Bush Snr, Ray Comfort, Lucifer, Aphrodite, Venus, the Nature spirits, Anoia, Cthulthu, The Dark Ones, Bel Shamhar'oth, PZ Myers, Richard Dawkins, and Myself.

Nohm said...

What Matt said.

Sam, your use of the phrase "fact, not theory" would have been far more clear if you had just written, "Hi everyone! I know absolutely nothing about facts and theories, and I want to remove all doubt from everyone about this! Watch how I show that I have absolutely no understanding of the claims of evolutionary biologists!"

Or, shorter Sam: "I don't know what I'm talking about with regards to evolution."

Sam said...

Doktor, you're not a card carrying member of the eugenics enthusiasts club are you? All that sterilization talk is bit of a worry!

And, don't worry too much about my smearing the reputation of Australia - the policy of removing Aboriginal children from their parents (which emerged from an opinion based on Eugenics theory) has done a pretty good job of that. I’m sure my few comments regarding what I see as the absurdity of evolution will not make too big a dent!

Sam said...

Doktor, you're not a card carrying member of the eugenics enthusiasts club are you? All that sterilization talk is bit of a worry!

And, don't worry too much about my smearing the reputation of Australia - the policy of removing Aboriginal children from their parents (which emerged from an opinion based on Eugenics theory) has done a pretty good job of that. I’m sure my few comments regarding what I see as the absurdity of evolution will not make too big a dent!

Now there's an evil off chute of Darwin's theories... the sterilisation of over 60,000 Americans by eugenics enthusiasts in the early 20th century, or the 400,000 mentally ill people sterilized by the Nazis (not to mention the systematic killing of millions of "undesirable" people including Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and homosexuals during the Holocaust) or the 4,000 babies murdered every day in the United States everyday through abortion clinics.

And yes, before you jump in with the “more wars have been caused by religion” argument, I’ll jump in there first. There have been thousands of atrocities committed in the “name of Christ”, but people








You are aware there are many Christians who accept the theory of evolution? Or are they not True Christians (tm)?
The bible is clear on one point. Man is not saved through his understanding of how the earth was created, but rather through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, whom God set for as an atoning sacrifice for all those who would believe. The whole thrust of scripture is towards this one end: how sinful men and women be reconciled to a holy God!

For the record, I personally believe in a literal 6 day creation, by a literal Creator, who spoke all things into being, but I would not break fellowship with someone in the gap theory camp… now the long day camp – that just doesn’t work on paper.

But at the end of the day, according to the testimony of scripture, this world will one day be destroyed, and a new heaven and earth created… so, while I am interested in the foundation of this place, my eyes are heavenwards!

Sam said...

Matt…

I chat with a lot of theists on blogs. Mostly they're honest, thoughtful, decent people who I just disagree with on some key issues.
If you’d like to name some of the key issues you’d like to chat about - we’ll dialog on those! Fire away. I’m not afraid of a healthy discussion and I can always learn something new!

I have observed evolution, personally, a number of times and the phrasing of your question; 'fact not theory' shows how little you know (or how much you're willing to be deceptive) about the scientific process.
When you have some time, I would be interested to hear of these observations.

Sam said...

James, have you tried praying something along these lines...

Dear God, whom I hate with all my being precisely because you hate and threaten me with hell. I hate this punishment perhaps even more than I hate you. Or, maybe I should say that I love my comfort even more than I hate you. For that reason I am asking a favor of you. I want you to make me love you, whom I hate even when I ask this and even more because I have to ask this. I am being frank with you because I know it is no use to be otherwise. You know even better than I how much I hate you and that I love only myself. It is no use for me to pretend to be sincere. I most certainly do not love you and do not want to love you. I hate the thought of loving you but that is what I’m asking because I love myself. If you can answer this ‘prayer’ I guess the gift of gratitude will come with it and then I will be able to do what I would not think of doing now—thank you for making me love you whom I hate. Amen.

ExPatMatt said...

Sam,

It's interesting that in your reply to me you totally failed to address your blatant dishonesty (that was the main content of my comment) and skipped straight on to other stuff.


Until you can acknowledge that either;

a) you know nothing about evolution, or

b) you know something about evolution but you lie about it anyway,

we're not going anywhere.

Unless, of course, this comment;

"I’m not afraid of a healthy discussion and I can always learn something new!".

was also a lie?


Cheers,

Whateverman said...

Sam wrote The bible is clear on one point. Man is not saved through his understanding of how the earth was created, but rather through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ

Then you should be spending your time explaining people how to repent and be saved, rather than attacking our understanding of how life came to be.

Right? By your own logic, you really shouldn't care what other people think about life's origins.

Instead, we find you proclaiming the superiority of your own faith and beliefs. I suggest you read the book you claim to revere and consult the passages that deal with pride and hubris. In doing so, you might help yourself avoid the sin of not practicing what you preach...

James said...

James, have you tried praying something along these lines...

Okay, I'll try that. Should I use a new frog, or do you think the two day old one is still viable?

Hooray for ethically-questionable science!

(Addendum) it occurs to me that reciting your suggested prayer would require myself saying a few lies, which I'll list below. Given the assumed nature of the deity I am praying to (i.e. he hates lies), this seems likely to have a detrimental effect on the outcome.

Lies contained within suggested prayer, when prayer is spoken by myself:
~ I hate God. (x6)
~ I hate the punishment of hell. (x1)
~ I love only myself (x1)

The first two are logically impossible due to my theological beliefs, and the last is due to my high level of natural empathy for others.

I will continue the experiment, but I hypothesise that the frog will remain dead, due to this flaw in the experimental procedure.

Sam said...

Matt,

Like you, I do not know everything there is to know in the field of evolutionary science! I'm not a scientist, I'm a software engineer. Yet, I have not encountered anything in my readings to date that would convince me we evolved from zero. If you think I am acting in a dishonest manner, you are entitled to your opinion. If you have some new information for me, by all means, bring it to the conversation. I'm particularly curious about the scientific experiments you have personally done, that is, the basis for your claim: I have observed evolution, personally, a number of times.

Whateverman said...

Sam wrote the following: Yet, I have not encountered anything in my readings to date that would convince me we evolved from zero.

That's great, honestly. The theory of evolution contains nothing that says or suggests (even remotely) that we evolved from zero. It would be accurate to say that the subject of how life began on Earth and how it changed over time are completely different.

Scientific evidence suggests that life began through chance chemical reactions. But the nature of these reactions are very much open to debate, and the subject itself is not a certainty. Simply put, we don't entirely understand how it began.

We have a much better understanding of how it changed once it got started.

ExPatMatt said...

Er Sam, this isn't about you being unconvinced by the evidence for evolution.

This is about you lying about what evolution is.

This isn't just my 'opinion', it's an easily verifiable fact. You think that a blended frog coming back to life is evolution - the entire scientific community (and most, reasonably-educated lay people) - says that you're very, very wrong.

So no, I will not be providing you with any information about my experiences of evolution because I have no reason to believe that you will honestly consider it.


And by the way;

I don't believe in God because Christians believe that a guy named James Christo drank 15 gallons of wine in one night and that if you text him at midnight on a full moon he'll come to your house and give you a free Nintendo Wii. I've tried texting him and nothing happened, therefore Christianity is all a big lie.

But if you have some new information for me, by all means, bring it to the conversation.

What do you think of that?

Nohm said...

"Yet, I have not encountered anything in my readings to date that would convince me we evolved from zero."

Suprisingly enough, no one else has encountered this either.

Of course, that's ok, because NO ONE CLAIMS THAT WE EVOLVED FROM "ZERO".

Again, Sam, when you say things like this, you look incredibly ignorant.

Sam said...

@ExPatMAtt said
You think that a blended frog coming back to life is evolution - the entire scientific community (and most, reasonably-educated lay people) - says that you're very, very wrong.
You are right! It is very unreasonable to assume that only a frog would hop back out of the blender. That's the wonderful thing about evolution, I don't know what to expect. Given enough time, I might get a butterfly, or a mosquito. Perhaps a tadpole... now that would freak me out!

So no, I will not be providing you with any information about my experiences of evolution because I have no reason to believe that you will honestly consider it.
Based on that reasoning I'm glad you are not a doctor! I've come to you and I need some evolutionary medicine to cure my theistic beliefs and you answer me... No, I'm not going to give you this prescription because I don't think that you will take it! Some evolutionary apologist you turned out to be!

I don't believe in God because Christians believe that a guy named James Christo drank 15 gallons of wine in one night and that if you text him at midnight on a full moon he'll come to your house and give you a free Nintendo Wii. I've tried texting him and nothing happened, therefore Christianity is all a big lie.
Mate. Brilliant argument. Checkmate!! What will I do... oh no... what will I do??!? Mate, all that argument proves is that you cannot prove God exists by following those steps! Got any more?

Sam said...

Nohm, um, once there was no life, nothing, nada, zip, ZERO… then all of a sudden (chemical reaction)… there was life! A living organism came forth from non living parts! What can we conclude from this? The first thing that comes to mind is that we should be careful how we store our chemicals in the garage… we don’t want those guys mixing! Imagine the man’s surprise when he opened his garage door on Saturday morning to get the lawn mower but got eaten by a dinosaur! He didn’t see that one coming!

ExPatMatt said...

Sam,

"You are right! It is very unreasonable to assume that only a frog would hop back out of the blender. That's the wonderful thing about evolution, I don't know what to expect. Given enough time, I might get a butterfly, or a mosquito. Perhaps a tadpole... now that would freak me out!"

So you plan on continuing your intellectual dishonesty, eh? Let me know how that works out for you.

"Based on that reasoning I'm glad you are not a doctor! I've come to you and I need some evolutionary medicine to cure my theistic beliefs and you answer me... No, I'm not going to give you this prescription because I don't think that you will take it! Some evolutionary apologist you turned out to be!".


Erm Sam, if a doctor had good reason to suspect that you wouldn't take the prescribed medication, they wouldn't give it to you! What would be the point?

And, so far, I've done no evolutionary 'apologetics' because you have presented absolutely nothing to do with evolution to begin with.


"Mate. Brilliant argument. Checkmate!! What will I do... oh no... what will I do??!? Mate, all that argument proves is that you cannot prove God exists by following those steps! Got any more?".

Ooooh, I get it now. You have learning difficulties.

Sorry about all the fuss, I didn't realize that you were actually mentally deficient - I thought you were just being dishonest.

Fair enough, I'll leave you to it.


PS. That medication you're not taking....you should take it.

Nohm said...

"A living organism came forth"

I thought that your issue was with evolution, but now you seem to be talking about abiogenesis.

Here's something for you: define "life" or "living".

Sam, you do understand that you don't understand what you're talking about, right?

Why would you embarrass yourself like this? Have you no personal integrity?

Sam said...

Nohm...

I thought that your issue was with evolution, but now you seem to be talking about abiogenesis.
I find them both equally unsubstantiated scientifically! Seriously man! Abiogenesis - a hypothetical organic phenomenon by which living organisms are created from nonliving matter. It is nothing but chemical evolution!

I’m sure you are familiar with Mr Comforts theory of how the coke can formed: Billions of years ago, a big bang produced a large rock. As the rock cooled, sweet brown liquid formed on its surface. As time passed, aluminum formed itself into a can, a lid, and a tab. Millions of years later, red and white paint fell from the sky, and formed itself into the words "Coca Cola 12 fluid ounces..

Nohm - if I started telling you this was true, you’d accuse me of insulting to your intellect! And you’d be right! But explain to me how the chemical evolution of a can of coke is unreasonable, but the evolution of life isn’t?

Come on mate. These theories are nothing but pin the tail on the donkey science. A bunch of blind men running around looking for a needle that hasn’t yet evolved in the haystack!

Mate, no matter how hard you push this barrow, you are never going to escape the fact that you will one day have to stand before your creator and explain to Him why you wanted so much for evolution to be true!

And why is that? Because you love your sin and want to stay in it!

NayLahKnee LahKnee said...

Sam....I dont understand why you go back and forth with folks who dont believe. For what purpose? I am just curious. I learned a Loooong time ago that you cant argue with unbelievers about whether ot not Jesus is real & what this is does not edify who God is.......at least it doesnt seem like it. I understand how you feel. My heart hearts to read some of these posts but man....is it really worth it?