You'd think that a process capable of evolving irreducibly complex biological functions without blueprints would have surely solved this little dilemma by now!
But after nearly four billion years of trying, evolution has still failed to come up with a workaround for death! Now that's a bit disappointing!
Mr & Mrs Evolutionist, you'd better hope that it finds a solution in the next 50 odd years or you're stuffed!
Thursday, February 11, 2010
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18 comments:
I don't think you understand what the "purpose", so to speak, of evolution is. The "purpose" of evolution is to allow an organism to survive long enough to pass on its DNA to the next generation. Any adaptation that makes that more likely will be passed on, any adaptation that makes it less likely will not.
Living forever is not necessary in order to pass on one's DNA. One need only live long enough to successfully reproduce: about 13 or 14 years in humans.
One could even say that living forever would be detrimental to passing on one's DNA in that undying organisms would be a terrible strain on the ecosystem, and since they couldn't die to reduce the strain, they would have to stop reproducing, hence ending evolution.
You're an idiot.
Directed at Sam, not PF.
Seriously, there are at least 2 fails in all 3 paragraphs of this post.
Utterly pathetic.
Hey Matt! Great to see you back! I always look forward to your comments - they make me smile :)
If evolution is true, then I am not sure you can call me an idiot - the process which made me like this is to blame! Actually, in light of 4 billion years of genetic evolution, on an evolutionary scale, the genetic differences between you and I would be so minor (compared to the advancements made since life was spontaniously generated) that we'd practically be identical twins! (So be careful what you call me)
But... If God is real... then you are in danger of hell!
"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, (a term of contempt)' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But [I tell you] anyone who says, 'You fool! (or you idiot)' will be in danger of the fire of hell."
Matthew 5:21
PF... I would have thought that evolving the ability not to die would be better than evolving a mechanism to reproduce!
Isn't there something in you which says, "I don't want to die?" Don't you want to live forever? Or are you going to swing out into eternity satisfied because you have passed on your little pool of genetic information?
Notice that Christianity hasn't solved the problem of death either, and this with an all-powerful deity on your side.
As for me, no, I do not want to live forever. Honestly. Why do people think that eternal existence is something we all crave? I'm pretty sure that without death, human life wouldn't be as precious as we feel it is today.
I fear death a bit, but to wish for something that allowed me to avoid death seems cowardly. Better to bravely face things you can not change, instead of spending a short existence looking for ways to avoid the inevitable.
And... as for the theory of evolution not having given us the means to avoid death, I agree a bit with ExPatMatt: it's a silly argument.
Evolution hasn't given us perfect eyesight, either, or the ability to breath under water, or to be "perfectly happy", or to have bones that wont break. Your God seems to have given animals abilities which surpass our own, despite the fact that we all live in a fallen world.
Just because we're not living in utopia right now doesn't mean that this somehow validates your religious beliefs, Sam.
Ah, once again the true reason why people become Christians is revealed!
Sam is terrified of dying. Death scares him so much that he has to force himself to believe in God so that he can delude himself into believing that he'll never die.
It's actually quite pathetic.
Sam,
Genetically (compared to the rest of life on earth) we are practically identical twins. But that only describes the 'hardware' of our bodies and brains. What we've filled our brains with - and how we decide to use them - is what makes us different.
You've decided to fill your brain with a delusion because you're scared of dying and, as such, you're forced to make statements and arguments that make you look like an idiot.
I chose life, and everything that goes with it (including death).
[PS. once again there was a science fail in your comment; are you going for a world record or something?]
One more thing Sam,
"But [I tell you] anyone who says, 'You fool! (or you idiot)' will be in danger of the fire of hell."
So does that mean that you can never use the "the fool has said in his heart; 'there is no God'" line then?
Ha!
Sam, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Why not ask if evolution is true, and humans are better than apes, why are there still apes?
PF- You obviously have some training in Biology. ...and though your analysis is basically correct...consider the following...it is unlikely that there is a particular "goal" to evolution. All organisms are really patchworks of DNA from various sources, with repeating sequences and parts of DNA that may have had some function, or may have a function in the future! Being successful Darwinistically is to pass on your DNA to the next generation, AND making sure that the offspring get at least to the age were they can reproduce.
I agree that circumventing death "would" put an undue burden on resources- and as such one of the 4 strategies that Darwin proposed would take over the regulation of population control: (for those that are on the edge of your seats, the four strategies are:) 1. Over production (more offspring are produced than can possibly survive), 2. Variation of offspring (usually by sexual reproduction), 3. There is always a struggle for resources, 4. Natural selection is on-going. That is to say that the environment will select or favor those organisms that are the BEST suited to that environment.
Matt- thats funny you prove a couple things for me in the bible.
1.- 1 Cor 1:18 "the message of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing, but to us that are being saved it isthe power of God.
2. Prov 21:30 "There is no wisdom and no understanding And no counsel against the LORD."
- keep it up brother for we are not ashamed of the gospel.
- keep it up brother for we are not ashamed of the gospel.
Well, it looks quite the opposite. If you are not ashamed of the gospel how come you have no problem presenting yourselves as ignorant idiots in the name of the gospel?
If you are not ashamed of the gospel, then what is stopping you from properly studying what evolution truly is about instead of coming with such idiotic questions as the previous thread and this one?
Evolution is a natural process. It has no mind. It was quite well described by T.B. If evolution could give you wings, then it would not be evolution, it would be a god.
But go ahead, keep at it. I guess your point is that you have to be too much of an idiot to share your faith. I pass, thank you.
G.E.
Whateverman...
Notice that Christianity hasn't solved the problem of death either, and this with an all-powerful deity on your side.
The testimony of scripture is clear as a bell why man must die! It is not right for men to sin against God and live! And this all powerful God you refer to... he has decreed that it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment.
When he so chooses, he will cut you off from the land of the living and call you to account for your rebellion against him! Then you will see how all powerful he is!
As for me, no, I do not want to live forever. Honestly. Why do people think that eternal existence is something we all crave? I'm pretty sure that without death, human life wouldn't be as precious as we feel it is today.
Mate, you wont live forever - guaranteed! Though, if you do not repent, you will wish that you might have lived forever! The place which awaits you is to be truly feared more than death itself!
I fear death a bit, but to wish for something that allowed me to avoid death seems cowardly. Better to bravely face things you can not change, instead of spending a short existence looking for ways to avoid the inevitable.
True, you cannot change the inevitable fact that you will die, but the bible warns you to fear falling into the hands of the living God. He has reached out to you and called you to repentance and faith in His Son - Jesus Christ. Should you choose to reject that right hand of fellowship, then I fear for you!
Evolution hasn't given us perfect eyesight, either, or the ability to breath under water, or to be "perfectly happy", or to have bones that wont break.
I agree with you there! It can't! It is only a theory!
Ah, once again the true reason why people become Christians is revealed!
Sam is terrified of dying. Death scares him so much that he has to force himself to believe in God so that he can delude himself into believing that he'll never die.
It's actually quite pathetic.
Matt. Actually... I am looking forward to the day I clock out of this world. This was not always the case though! I was once afraid... but not of dying! I once was afraid of standing before the Judge of all creation! My conscience would trouble me day and night - I knew I had sinned against God and deserved to be punished in hell. But then he was merciful to me, and showed me that he had punished Jesus Christ in my place, and I saw that I had been forgiven! It is written that perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment – and that is true! When I realised what He had done for me, love for Him soon began to drive away any fear that He would punish me!
Sam,
Genetically (compared to the rest of life on earth) we are practically identical twins. But that only describes the 'hardware' of our bodies and brains. What we've filled our brains with - and how we decide to use them - is what makes us different.
You've decided to fill your brain with a delusion because you're scared of dying and, as such, you're forced to make statements and arguments that make you look like an idiot.
Matt, based on your precious theory, I would have no option about what I put in my brains. Genetically, I would have been predisposed to fill my brains in this manner, and am therefore at the mercy of random chemical impulses. In such circumstances, the fact that you would judge me as an idiot is cruel and unfair (evolution made me do it!) - though you yourself would have to conclude that you were genetically unable to avoid such cruel thoughts! Such is evolution!
[PS. once again there was a science fail in your comment; are you going for a world record or something?]
Please illuminate me as to this fail...
Why not ask if evolution is true, and humans are better than apes, why are there still apes?
Are humans better than apes? Do apes murder millions of their unborn in the womb? Do apes perform gruesome experiments like those of Unit 731? Do apes carry out holocausts or perform widespread ethnic cleansing and wholesale genocide? Do apes strap explosives to their wives and children and blow them up in the marketplace? Are humans good? Not on your life! Take all that a human is capable of doing - murdering, lying, cheating, stealing, hating, raping, torturing, using one another, slandering, gossiping, selling themselves (and all the rest) - boil all of that down and put it in a little brown paper bag, and you have therein the human heart. Dreadfully evil! Capable of exceeding wickedness! And that is your heart Debunky! Are you better than an ape?
Sam, you ignored nearly everything that I wrote. I'm having a hard time imagining that, given this behavior, you're worth spending time talking to...
Here's a sincere hint: if you want your evangelism to be successful, you need to talk TO people, not AT them. If you want people to listen to what you say, you need to do the same.
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